Comments on: Diels-Alder Reaction: Kinetic and Thermodynamic Control https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/ Wed, 18 Sep 2024 18:07:37 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.2 By: Yonas https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-707614 Wed, 18 Sep 2024 18:07:37 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-707614 Thank you

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-598987 Mon, 22 Mar 2021 15:29:39 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-598987 In reply to Jennifer.

While it is *possible* for another Diels-Alder to occur with another diene here, normal alkenes without electron withdrawing groups are not very good dienophiles. To get the reaction to work, you would likely have to heat it, and then you might run into problems with the retro-Diels-Alder occurring.

Cyclopentadiene *can* Diels-Alder with itself, but that’s as a concentrated liquid in the absence of solvent.

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This is usually beyond the scope of this course, but there are reactions known as “inverse electron diels alder” reactions, where *electron rich dienophiles* react with *electron poor * dienophiles. So if one were to treat that exo diels alder product with an electron-poor diene, another diels-alder reaction could occur.

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By: Jennifer https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-598754 Mon, 15 Mar 2021 08:54:30 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-598754 Thank you for the clear explanation! I was wondering could an exo product react with cyclopentadiene to form some three ring structure. In other words, could the thermodynamically stable exo product act as a dienophie with a diene that formed it creating another diels alder product of three rings?

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By: Johann Hiller https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-582632 Thu, 30 Jul 2020 18:54:42 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-582632 Never thought chemistry would make me laugh. That was a good one with the cyclopentadiene offer! Keep the great work.

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-556731 Fri, 21 Jun 2019 18:25:41 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-556731 In reply to Scott Niezgoda.

Probably wouldn’t happen because the electronics are wrong. Need the diene plus a very electron withdrawing dienophile and linoleic doesn’t qualify in that regard. Diels Alder reactions in nature are well known, but usually intramolecular where there is higher effective concentration of reactants.

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By: Scott Niezgoda https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-556730 Fri, 21 Jun 2019 18:14:16 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-556730 Thanks James. I was more referring to linoleic undergoing DA reactions with itself. As in, much like cyclopentadiene can act as a diene and dienophile, could one expect a conjugated fatty acid to undergo this same “self DA-ing” mechanism, or is the lack of permanent s-cis orientation too prohibitive for this to occur readily? Or moreover, does the lack of electron withdrawing in the linoleic molecule’s double bond also largely prohibit this? Can’t find anything in the literature on this…
Thanks again for your opinion

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By: James Ashenhurst https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-556728 Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:29:21 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-556728 In reply to Scott Niezgoda.

Cyclopentadiene is unusually reactive in Diels-Alder reactions because the diene is “locked” in an s-cis conformation. A quick Google search shows that DA reactions have been done with conjugated linoleic acids and reactive dienophiles like N-methyl maleimide: DOI: 10.1039/C2GC35792E

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By: Scott Niezgoda https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-556709 Fri, 21 Jun 2019 15:50:34 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-556709 Great post. I’m wondering if unsaturated fatty acids like conjugated linoleic acid might be expected to undergo DA reactions with themselves as well. Is there something special about cyclopentadiene that causes it to have this propensity?

Thanks!

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By: James https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-539177 Wed, 10 Oct 2018 01:00:31 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-539177 In reply to tim.

You’re right, Slim – things work slowly around here. On the fix list! EDIT: fixed. Thank you!

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By: tim https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2018/09/03/diels-alder-kinetic-thermodynamic-exo-endo/#comment-539091 Mon, 08 Oct 2018 03:17:12 +0000 https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/?p=11763#comment-539091 I think your furan-maleic anhydride product is still endo, as pointed out by Bart.

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